Jacob!

And the four-toed statue looks like it has an aligator face.

The Black Rock?

Jacob is the puppeteer....

Vincent!

Rose!

Bernard!

Thye know about Jacob and the ash.

Definitely, Lady. And Jacob somehow got loose again.

I missed it. WHEN did Jacob recruit Ilana?

You didn't Lady. This is the first we've seen of that.

The Mod Squad!

I know that it's new news, but both Jacob and Ilana looked to be about the same age. Apparently Jacob doesn't age either...

SPOILERS!!!

Could someone explain the ash to me? I'm drawing a blank...

I think if I was watching with someone else (other than fellow Lost enthusiasts like yourselves), they would think me crazy...

I so cheered when Juliet took charge in the sub! (however, the look Bernard gave her has me a bit worried)

And then I was so ecstatis when Vincent ran out, and then we saw Rose & Bernard! Are we to take it that the other survivors all dies along the way though, from flaming arrows etc?

And Locke died twice?

Well, this fight has been coming for three years.

Vogs, in the original ep when we saw the cabin, it was surrounded by ash. Ben made sure that Locke did not break the circle of ash when he crossed over it.

Is Juliet pregnant? Looked like she had her hand on a baby bump.

Quite the beatdown!

And Juliet changing her mind... at least they explained why right away

Another question - what was the candy Jack got from the vending machine? I couldn't read the label on my smaller TV. It may not be important but there's often hidden Easter eggs and fun references in these so I'm curious

So... Jacob has given the Losties all something... a lunch box, a pen, life, a blessing, a candy bar that'd been stuck... etc. Sometimes with words that seem to doom... telling Kate she won't steal again but she does; telling Sun & Jin not to take their marriage for granted, but they do (pre-Island, now it's good of course). But others like the line about a push when talking to Jack don't quite seem the same...

The candy was an Apollo bar, which was also the brand that was in Swan that Kate ate.

Interesting that it was Christian gave Jack the push that Jacob referred to. maybe he does speak for Jacob and has for some time.

Thanks for the answers Charlotte!

Perhaps he does? Or if something happened to Jacob, perhaps it was because of Christian? Not really sure what's going on with them at this point but I'll go wherever the writers/producers take us!

I'm beginning to think that that wasn't Jacob in the cabin that Ben and Locke visited, that it was the other man on the beach with him (Esau?), and he's the one who asked Locke for help. That's why Locke's going to kill Jacob, to restore this other man's birhtright to lead the Island.

OK, if Jacob is "imprisoned" on the Island (or whatever), how could he be in L.A getting Hurley out of jail? I'm sooo confused.

Miles finally gets it!

Holy magnetic field! With all the time play it's hard to say what will happen but what a way to go

That was heartbreaking.

Anybody speak Latin?

Dead is dead.

Holy crap.

Holy f***!!!

The real Locke dead - was that guy also the spirit of Christian etc?

Juliet alive? Or did she sacrifice herself being too close to the bomb?

It's going to be a long wait until 2010... that was AMAZING

Agree Vogs. Top-notch. My hands were clenched the last twenty minutes.

I think that the guy I'm calling Esau (for lack of another name right now) has taken the form of Locke in order to get Ben to murder Jacob. That was the loophole they talked about in the first scene. Esau could not kill Jacob himself, so he had to get a proxy, much as Locke had to get Sawyer to kill his father for him.

Is Juliet dead? I don't know, but I think there's a possibility that she survives, as Desmond did when he turned the failsafe key. I also think that the "they're coming" phrase that Jacob says is not referring to Ilana's group but to the return of the 1977 Losties to the present time.

So-So Season
Epic Season Finale

Cannot read anything, I had family in from out of town and had to DVR the finale. Will watch tomorrow after the guests are gone. I am so psyched and yet so curious.

LOL

Wow!

So, I went back and rewatched the scene with Jacob and the other guy. Jacob, white shirt, good, bringing people to the island hoping for a new outcome, called it progress until it ended as there is only one end. Other guy, black shirt, dark, believes people always fight and are corrupted or corruptible. Christ and Satan? Definitely a good versus evil battle for the world? The island? The souls of mankind?

Yeah, Vogs, I think the other guy was manifesting prior to as Christian. Remember he said to Jacob he had know idea what he had to go through to get there. "Christian" is the one who sent Locke into the future off the island where he'd die. Richard and Ben both said they'd never seen anyone be resected.

They broke my heart with Juliet and then left us hanging big time!! Damn 'em!

Oh, and the statue is the spoiler I posted in the other thread. She's Taweret the Goddess Demoness of Birth, Rebirth, and the Northern Sky; the goddess of maternity and childbirth, protector of women and children.

I had the same thought, though I'm not exactly sure where the sides will fall if there is a 'war' so to speak... since some seemed to be on Jacob's side... and Locke isn't really Locke... and Sun and Jin have yet to be reunited (it's gotta happen in the final season's premiere then!... etc).

I'm also wondering if there is a flash back to the future... if for some reason Rose and Bernard become the exceptions. This episode definitely set them up to perhaps even go further back and end up as 'Adam & Eve'... though perhaps that'll end up being another couple.

So, if "Esau" can pose as anybody (apparently), how do we know who the real puppeteer is? Was it Jacob or "Esau" running around involving himself in the lives of our Losties?

Damn! I have one heck of a headache...

I had a similar thought and should see if that clip gets online if I can re-watch it too, because I wasn't sure who was good and evil. I actually almost thought the opposite... that Jacob was dooming them in a way... Kate to steal, Sun/Jin to take the marriage for granted, etc... and that the other guy was perhaps more good and wanting to avoid the corruption... but then the deception with Ben and learning he was posing as Locke at the end, definitely makes him seem more like the bad guy instead.

Yet... it definitely does make me think of God and Satan... as if they have a bet on who would win out for souls if people were to fend for themselves, or together, on an island full of crazy magnetic fields and smoke monsters... and to be honest, I felt like with the mention of 'Moses', there was this total knowing look (in the scene with Ben, Jacob and Locke). I don't know if it'd be the Christian God/Satan per se, but the idea of it being good vs evil and those two having lasted for many many years ... well it's certainly quite the theory!

Oh, was the cabin that we thought was Jacob's the same place Rose and Bernard were living in? It sure looked the same.

Vogs, I noticed the Moses refrenece, too. And, yeah, I don't know if it's the Christian God and Satan, but good and evil in a similar form. All religions have very similar tales, fables, whatever you want to call them.

In that first scene Jacob is in white, like in the last scene and the other guy is in a very dark black shirt. The classic white hat/black hat hero/villain concept. Also, Jacob had the appearance of benevolence(healing?) and the other one menace(taking the form of the dead).

No, I don't think it was the same.

I really want to know why Illiana had her face all burned.

"Two sides, one light, one dark."

Well, we were told that in season 1 and here we are again, Jacob in the white shirt and "Esau" in the black shirt. I've long suspected that there are two forces on the Island, one that was trying to get the Losties there (Obvioulsy Jacob) and one that wanted to keep them away ("Esau"). Is "Esau" Smokey, or do they just work together to judge those they come in contact with? Or is Smokey neutral and can be used by both Jacob and Esau?

Loved Phil becoming shish-kebab.

All I know is once again I cried my eyeballs out with the Juliet & James scene!! I liked the fact that Kate was trying to help.

I do not like the fact that Juliet seemed to be suffering, although she served a purpose.

So why would Jacob be living in a Goddess Foot? Thats the strange part of it all. That connection I just can not seem to figure out.

Why was Ben ignored by Jacob? Is it because Esau saved Ben's life or I guess it would have been Jacob that saved his life? Ben had no choice in the matter of who or what saved him. If there can be only one leader..... why is not Richard the leader? Seems the most logical choice to me.

let this simmer in your brains :-)

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/p98.htm

I knew this season was building up to something excellent. This final episode was classic 10/10 I told everyone that we had to go back in order to understand the future. There were just so many answers this season but we are still on the edge of our seats with more questions. This is a epic battle between good and evil. Last year I think many felt it was between Ben and Charlie but its even bigger than those two. Kudos to Lost. Each actor/actress should be proud of another season well done. With this episode Elizabeth Mitchell once again shined. I can't believe we are force to wait until 2010. I have a strong urge to buy every season on DVD. This has been my favorite must see show for years.

Wow! This 2 hour finale was the best episode of Lost yet.

This definitely made up for a frustrating season.

Here is the translation of Richard's answer to What lies beneath the shadow of the statue? From lostipedia.

“He who will protect/save us all.”

A reference to Jacob?

Interesting but I don't think the other guy is Esau of the Biblical story. He looked older than Jacob and he called him "friend" not "brother." Also, Esau in the Biblical story was a redhead, and important point in the tale.

When Iliana (name) spoke to Richard she used another name (Egyptian?) He gave the correct answer and she then called him Richard. (is Richard a biblical name?) So I wonder if Jacob and Esau have also taken on biblical names?

Hence my question. Is there a similar story in Egyptian Myth ? A good god versus an evil one. This island has to do with ancient Egypt. The Christian names are secondary.


I just had a thought. Does anyone know of a story from anywhere/when that has to men sent to exile? or something. It reminds me of the movie about the angels with Ben afflek and Mark Harmon sent to earth and not allowed to enter heaven. Could Jacob and Esau be the same.

You mean Dogma with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon?

Ilana called Richard "Ricardus" and Richard is not a Biblical name. No one knows what the new guy's name is yet...it's nothing but theory and speculation. Btw the casting sides for his character use the name "Samuel"

There are Egyptian means behind a lot of Lost, I'd have to look around to see if any of the Gods fit the Jacob/new guy profile.

I had to DVR the show and even then watched it so late some of you have already discussed a lot of important pieces of the show. But here's a few notes:

I was so happy to see Rose and Bernard, and their situation just fit them so perfectly. I could easily imagine them living together in peace for the past three years, avoiding the fights, and avoiding the work. Although I imagine they had to work to keep themselves under the radar.

It was nice to see Miles say what some of us had been thinking - that the Losties Cause the incident -(that causes the eventual crash of the plane.)

I cheered when Sawyer pounded Jack! Okay - maybe not to a bloody mess, but that first hit felt great! (As did when he yelled at Jack about what makes him think he knows best for everyone else.)

So sad for Sawyer and Julia! And I loved how he kept calling her his nickname for her and telling her she wasn't going anywhere. My hope is that she'll flash forward with the rest of them and survive to love him another day.

My smart and observant son pointed this one out to me... When Miles father was trapped he told me Miles father would escape alive because he had to be able to make all those films about the station. Yep - a few seconds later he was proved right.

Lookalike-Locke looks to me like the Bad guy and everything we've seen and everything I didn't pay a lot of attention to is now coming altogether and starting to make a lot of sense. Why would Ben follow Locke? Because Alex told him to. But Alex was DEAD. As was Christian, and Remy, and imo - Claire. He used the dead to communicate and accomplish what he wants.

Oh boy... there's just so much to this show! But something I agree with a earlier poster is that I just LOVE this show and this finale episode was about the best ever!!

All I can say is.....WOW.....fantastic episode.....

It was truly heartbreaking scene with Sawyer/Juliet...we finally saw some heartbreak from Sawyer......he deserves and Emmy nomination......he truly loves Juliet.......this show had everything......

Wow, best episode for a long time. Maybe ever!

A few things:

These are the casting notes for Jacob and his nemesis:


I thought it was very interesting that they inverted the Lost title screen at the end (white with black lettering).

Jacob was reading 'Everything That Rises Must Converge' by Flannery O'Connor. If it's good enough for Jacob...

"Too sides, one light, one dark" - I immediately thought of that during the very first scene. It was kind of cool that Locke really isn't Locke, hence the "You got your loophole now!" comment from Jacob.

Jacob visiting the young Losties and I've-fallen-and-can't-get-up Locke reminded me so much of those guardian angel stories I heard when I was a kid.

Most of the stuff that happened wasn't all that big of a deal to me, but still fun to watch. I felt bad for Juliet and Sawyer... and I did enjoy watching Sawyer and Jack Work Out their sexual tension between them.

Glad they showed us what was in the box. Didn't know what to think of the ending. I have to say the best part of the show, for me, was the very first scene with our 'light' and 'dark' characters.

Did anyone watch the Lost recap? My sister said that the recap mentioned why Sun, Ben, Lapidus were in a different time than the rest of the Losties, but she couldn't remember what it said.

Did it really say that, and if so, what was the reason?

I'm gonna re-watch the recap. I missed a lot of it and I didn't want to miss the show, so I taped it instead.

This show is so awesome. Better than any other show on TV today. The scene between Juliet and Sawyer (James) was so touching and so sad at the same time. She really loves him and I think he really loves her. They were so perfect together. And yes the Jack Sawyer beatdown was awesome. Those 2 guys can really fight!!!

I'm glad I taped the recap - I'll watch it this weekend when I watch the Lost finale again.

I agree he's not really Esau, but since he was given no name I just used it since he is Jacob's rival for Island supremacy. This is a very complex relationship that we've seen only glipmses of so far.

Many mytholigies have these Cain and Abel/Jacob and Esau rivalries (whether actual brothers or friends). In Egyptian myth, it is between Osiris and Seth. Seth ends up killing Osiris and scattering his body parts around. Osiris's wife Isis puts him back together and reanimates him long enough to have sex with him and conceive a son, Horus, before Osiris becomes judge of the underworld. Horus grows up and avenges his father's murder.

Exile is another prominent theme in myth (as home was very important in ancient times, and exile seen as a horrible punishment). Jacob self-exiled himself after stealing his brother's birthright, and it's very prominent in Greek myth, especially the Oedipus story. I can delve into this more later when I have time (I am supposed ot be working right now ).

And the name Ilana called Richard was Ricardos, the Latin form which Juliet also used ealier this season.

According to C&L, it was because the circumstances of flight 815 were not recreated exactly.

I'm just still so in awe of the very first scene last night. I wish we could have had a little more dialogue with Jacob and Darky, but I guess that will come next season.

It all just reminds me of the story of Job - God and the devil kind of 'playing' around with mankind. There are also tons of other ancient stories along those lines of angels/demons, good/bad beings, whatever, testing mankind or simply just toying with them for entertainment purposes... kind of like the Greek gods and such.

It'll be interesting to see who these two guys really are. Evidently, they are not able to kill each other and I'm not convinced that either can actually die. They are some kind of spirit or Supernatural beings.

EDIT: I also agree with someone in a blog that said it's quite possible that Jacob never lived in the shack with the ring - like some of the characters on the show believed, but it was Darky guy instead... and now he's free because the ash ring was broken. Hopefully next season we will see how they managed to capture him and keep him contained in that area. The reason I feel Darky guy was really the one in the cabin is because he said to Locke, "Help me!" and it appeared Darky was the New Locke. Just something to think about... may not be right, but something to think about.

Oh...okay. I knew something seemed off about that; I just hadn't realized what!



While I don't think the island events are biblical in any way I do see familiar Good vs. Evil themes reoccurring like in the Bible, mythology, (or The Narnia Chronicles for that matter). We have an island Father figure in the form of Jacob. Who is he betrayed by? One of his own 'disciples,' shall we call him? And he goes to his defeat peacefully, giving the impression he knows something...perhaps that it's for the greater good?

A friend asked me a question and I thought I'd pass it on.

Does anyone have any theories on the significance of Jacob leaving the guitar case in the cab for Hurley? I originally thought it was Hurley's way of bringing some form of entertainment and music back to the island as well as being a reminder of Charlie. But now we've learned it wasn't even Hurley's guitar to begin with. And - I just don't recall if we've actually seen an instrument out of the case. Have we...or are the contents of the case another mystery?

I think the contents are a mystery, I don't recall seeing in an instrument or anything pulled out either. I had the same thought... what's in the case... didn't know if it was to help get Hurley in the past by re-creating the original scenario, or if there was more to it...

I thought it was Charlie's guitar...or at least a reminder.....and didn't Sun pick up a ring in the camp that said DS.....what was the name of Charlie's band again?? There were a few Charlie references last night......what does that mean??

I don't think Juliet died.....if she was alive then she will exist in the old universe before the flight landed.....

I don't think she died either. But, wasn't someone supposed to die? Sayid? Seems doubtful he died. I don't believe Juliet died either. I can't bring myself to believe Jacob is dead either. So, who's left? Locke?? But there was nothing emotional and gut-wrenching about it like I heard we were supposed to feel. ... unless they were referring to Juliet's apparent death, but I don't buy it. She's not dead.

I just want to mention how great Michael Emerson was in this episode, especially in his bitter confrontation with Jacob. Josh Holloway and Elizabeth Mitchell were also top-notch, and their final scene together was absolutely heartbreaking.

I'm with you, Monkey and Bats. My initial reaction was to believe her death because of the death description in the posted spoiler. I definitely had "a Charlie's-death-level emotional reaction to the character death...wailing, rending of garments and general grief." However, good writers don't kill a character off in an emotionally great scene like that and then later show her again - not dead yet, and trump their big scene with a lesser one. And Lost has great writers. So now I have doubts about her demise. I hope it's not just wishful thinking, but I do think she has a chance to survive.

If it's not her - then who? Jacob? Locke? the Dharma guy? I didn't feel so strongly about those. And Sayid didn't die - at least not in the finale.

Am I to understand there is going to be another season? I thought this was the end!!

Welcome!! and yes, one more season.

Yes the producers said it was because they weren't able to follow Eloise's instructions exactly in recreating the flight.

Monk, don't be too worried about Sawyer and Juliet. You don't do a big, emotional, gut-wrenching death scene THEN ruin it by showing one of them alive to then kill 'em again.

There are interesting conotations with Job, yes. That first scene is a must rewatch to get the subtle things that become clear at the end.

And I agree about the cabin. Maybe at one time it was Jacob's, but it was Darky/Samuel trapped in it. He obviously has dominion and power over the dead. If he has necromancer powers he doesn't have to actually inhibit their bodies, but animate them...like a puppet.

Also, it's possibly why the Others were so set on burying bodies. I believe in one of the first shows they told the Losties to make sure they properly buried their dead, and it could be why Richard wanted the body of Amy's husband.

Also, CC gave an interview and mentioned the Steven King book The Stand and talked about how it was on of his favorites and that Locke was similar to the villain in that book...Frank something.

Jacob gave something to Hurley, Sawyer(pen), Kate(lunchbox), and Jack(candybar). They were the 4 names on the list back in season 2.

Charlie's band was called Drive Shaft. It was sad when Sun picked up the DS ring in what was Aaron's crib.

Perhaps Juliet 'died' but was resurrected somehow like Locke was when he fell 8 stories. We don't know that Jacob didn't visit Juliet at some point.

Though I'm holding out hope that she'd flash or whatever, a part of me does think back to the sacrifice Charlie made... if Juliet is dead, at least it will end up an honorable one.

True.

I really hope Sawyer doesn't go back to Kate, ugh.. I hate Kate so much right know

Anyone else feel that Hurley is extra special. His ability to see the dead seems important.

Agreeance! He spent a few months with Kate and a few YEARS with Juliet....I don't see how he can have any feelings left for Kate. Not to mention, half the time Kate treated him like crap!

If Jack's plan works, will Charlie, Boone, etc. all be alive again next season?

If the plan works, everyone from the flight would be alive & it would land and no one would have any memory of what happened cause it wouldn't have happened. Sounds like what the scene could be for the very last one of the series!

Theoretically, but that's a big if with a lot of buts

Hurley definitely does seem important. Not cursed - but blessed?

Oh you're right.. so this means the bomb only works with the people of Oceanic 815, not The Others (Juliet )

Hmm...you all are forgetting what Miles said. We don't know that the bomb even went off, first of all. We just saw bright white....like what we saw everytime they time jumped. Secondly, if the bomb worked, Pierre would be dead and we know he survived AFTER losing his hand to make at least 1 Dharma video. Third, we don't know that the bomb wasn't the incident and all they did was cause what will crash their plane...just like what Miles asked them.

I doubt very seriously they'll just have the plane land, all forgotten, with characters alive who aren't available to do the show. Plus, Jacob's warning to DarkMan..."They're coming" Does anyone really think they spent 2 hours showing us how Jacob went to each Lostie for him not to have meant them?

I agree, Francheeta. Plus, D&L have mentioned that they would avoid paradox, and having the bomb change the future would create paradox, in that Jack could no longer go back in time to change the past if he changed the past. Besides, it would cheat characters like Charlie and Michael out of their redemptions, which is very important to the show. Not to mention that this is what Jeff Jensen at EW thinks will happen, more or less, and his theories are always wrong (but fun!).

My guess is that Jacob's "They're coming" comment refers either to the return of the pastaways to the present time or to the second party that will be at war on the Island. Which brings up the question of who's on who's side? Will it be the Non-Locke faction against the Jacob faction? Which side will Ben be on and which one Widmore? Did Widmore know that Locke would die and have his form coopted by Anti-Jacob ("Esau")? Whose side is Eloise Hawking really on?

As for Non-Locke, was he also Christian, Yemi, and Alex? Their bodies were also on the Island. Was he also Hurley's imaginary friend Dave in order to kill Hurley and thwart some plan of Jacob's? Did he take Alex's form in order to make sure that Ben followed Non-Locke in order to kill Jacob and exploit the loophole? What other "trouble" has he gone through to where he could kill Jacob?

Who really brought 815 to the Island? Jacob, as part of his witnessing 'progress'? Anti-Jacob, to find an appropriate person to later exploit for his loophole? Why was it so important for Jacob to visit the Losties, even as children? Did he somehow 'mark' them when he touched them?

Was that Jacob we saw before in the cabin, or Anti-Jacob? His comment about never have been in prison seems to imply that it wasn't him, and Ben admitted that he was performing a charade for Locke when he took him there. Ben was genuinely surprised when Locke said he heard the voice. And it seems that Anti-Jacob would have more of a cause to cry out for help than Jacob would.

Who moved the ash so that he (Jacob or Anti-Jacob) could escape? Was it really even a prison? Was he still in control of Smokey while in the cabin? Did he just use the memories that Smokey retrieved from those he read (Locke, Eko) when he took the forms of Locke and Yemi, or was he somehow able to co-opt part of their personalities into his own (as it seems he did with Christian, as he never read Jack that I recall).

Why was Jacob so complacent about Anti-Jacob wanting to kill him? He almost seemed to welcome it. Can he really die, or will he come back stronger, a la Obi-Wan Kenobi? If Richard remains loyal to Jacob, who side will the Others be on? Will they still follow their 'leader' Locke?

I need to watch that episode again.

I agree with Frannie and you also. I think Miles had it right. The "incident" sets things in motion and has nothing to do with a bomb capable of destroying everyone. Jack's "plan" will not work in the way he imagined.

I was thinking about Dave too, but forgot he tried to get Hurley to throw himself off the cliff. How devious! (Thanks for the reminder!)

I'm pretty sure Widmore would be on the side of Darkman. He's never mentioned Jacob that I can recall and he was setting Locke up. The war will have to be between the Jacob/good side and Darkman/evil side. Now, there could be small battles in the midst of the bigger war.



I'm pretty sure Darkman was Alex, Christian, and Yemi. Probably Dave, Charlie, and Libby, too. But I'm less sure about the dead people Hurley saw based on Jacob telling Hurley that was a blessing.

Alex was used to get Ben to do what FLocke said. And remember Eko was in-tune with the island, and he was mentioned by the producers as being on the same level as Locke. The only reason he was killed off is because the actor wanted off the show. But I'm pretty sure Darkman used Yemi to try and get Eko to be his emissary, when Eko refused Darkman killed him using Smokey. Christian has been used by Darkman to set up Locke all along.

The other trouble is pretty much everything that lead Locke to die.



I don't know that they'll change the story to reflect Jacob bringing the Losties to the island. We have been told for years it was the EM Field when Des didn't push the button. Now, perhaps Jacob nudged them all in some ways and if they were there and caused the incident in the first place, of course Jacob would know the plane would crash.

I think Jacob touching them was significant. He marked them some how...be it protection, a means to not let them die, or a mark that chooses them. Remember Bram asking Ilana if Frank was chosen? Similar to that perhaps...but I feel like it was a mark of protection. They've all been in so many situations where they should have died and didn't. Only Locke, who appeared to have been healed/resurrected by Jacob when he fell.



I think it's been Darkman in the cabin all along and the ash was keeping him trapped there some how.



In Cabin Fever we saw Locke disturb the ash by mistake. Darkman could still have controlled the dead and even Smokey, but his physical form...which we saw on the beach...was trapped in the cabin and needed the ash to be severed to free him. If he has dominion over the dead, as a necromancer would, he controls them like puppets, so they'd have their memories, memories he could use to his advantage.



If Jacob is a Christ-like figure he had to sacrifice himself for the greater good. And he'd have always known he would. I'd say he can be resurrected some how....maybe by some act for pure goodness or sacrifice by the Losties. I see no reason the Others would follow FLocke when they clearly know the real Locke is dead.

What do you think about Ana Lucia? She was helpful to stressed out Hurley without pushing him to either return to the island or hurt himself.

BREAKING NEWS!!

Jacob gets stabbed by Ben and winds up half dead under a tarp in the Nevada desert. While he lies in hospital bed the Las Vegas CSI team investigates...

fLibby the waitress is suspect...



...er...nope. She's dead.










No clue on the final outcome of this case, as this poster has not finished watching it yet!

I meant to include her...I think it's all or nothing. Either they're all Darkman or they're not. Minus Dave...he was the only one Hurley saw ON the island, right? All the others were off island? My guess is Dave was definitely Darkman, the others I'm less sure about just because of what Jacob told Hurley.

thanks puggy....it's those little moments in Lost that have such a huge impact...this show is great for that.....

A lot of people on other forums seem to be assuming that it's Smokey taking the form of Anti-Jacob/Esau/Darkman and the other forms (Christian, Yemi, etc.) that he's taken, though we've never actually seen Smokey actually transform into a corporeal form. Some claim that these forms aren't actually corporeal, which is why Non-Locke couldn't kill Jacob himself, though Dead Alex slammed Ben pretty hard up against a post. I'm not saying that Anti-Jacob and Smokey are separate, but it may be presumptuous to think that the two are one and the same. Personally, I'm leaning towards Smokey being a neutral figure that works in conjuction with both Jacob and Anti-Jacob.

Is Jacob really a force for good or just Free Will (with the occasional push to get things going)? This would put Anti-Locke in the role of Destiny rather than as a force for evil. (Or is it the other way around, with thread-spinning, tapestry-weaving Jacob being Destiny and Anti-Jacob being Free Will, knowing that humans will always fall back into their dark habits by choice rather than by fate). I bring this up because if the Others were taking orders from Jacob, and Jacob is a force for good, then who ordered the Purge? Was Anti-Jacob fooling Richard all this time? Granted, Richard no longer seems as all-knowing as he once did, but he has had regular contact with Jacob for some time, probably at least from the time of the arrival of the Black Rock and maybe even longer. Could Anti-Jacob have fooled him for so long?

Does Richard even known about Anti-Jacob? Was he the one who, if it was Anti-Jacob imprisoned in the cabin, put him there? How did Ben know about the cabin? Did he know about Anti-Jacob? Do Widmore and Eloise? So many questions still. I love it!

Ben ordered to purge based on what "Jacob" told him. Since he never met Jacob it is all on Ben's head.

Could it be that Anti-Jacob told him to do the purge??? And he thought it was Jacob. Oy my head

I don't think so because Ben admitted to fake Locke that he had lied about ever seeing Jacob. If he had seen Anti-Jacob he still would have actually seen someone. If that makes sense.

All along I think Ben has been leading the Others based on what he wants to do. His own agenda not Jacob's or anyone elses.

Aren't you forgetting something? Ben talked about following notes and instructions from Jacob brought to him by Richard. And Richard knew enough about Jacob to bring Locke and everyone to him, so Ben had to be following Jacob's orders for some things - otherwise, why all the outrage?

Ben also claimed that he was responsible for the Purge when he and Jack had their 5-minute meeting at the end of season 3, but told Hurley that he wasn't the one who gave the order when he spoke to Hurley at the pit in Cabin Fever.

I never said Smokey/Darkman were the same, but that Darkman controls Smokey or uses it. FLocke was defiantly corporeal, he touched and carried things, and he touched Ben on the beach.



How do we know Richard told been to gas Dharmaville and not Darkman in the guise of Jacob told Ben to do it? We don't. We haven't been shown enough. We don't even know if there's not some reason real Jacob would have ordered it. But you don't use such plain imagery as a black shirt and a white shirt and not mean that as a clue to good and evil.

Jacob kept speaking of choice. He told Ben and Hurley they had a choice, yet if you look at religious fables there's free will AND an all knowing being/God in all of them. People have free will, yet God already knows the choices we'll make...He won't stop them or interfere, hence giving us freedom of choice. Destiny and free will aren't antithesis of each other.



I'm sure Richard knows about Darkman, the others...who knows.

Ben also admitted he lies...that's what he does.




Yep he sure did. And we know that Jacob gave the Other's a list with Hurley, Sawyer, and Kate's name on it...and maybe Jack's. Although we were told that Jack's name was never on Jacob's list.

Next year is the final season. With only 17 episodes left I feel that the show needs to focus alot more on just several characters. Of course we need to learn more about Jacob and his foe. Next, Richard will have to be explained in great lenghts. Lastly we need episodes dedicated to both Widmore and Eloise. I would still like to know how Desmond is going to play a role because as for now he has yet to return to the island. Christian and Claire needs some time. And lastly we can't forget Locke and Ben are still very much important. So there are going to be so many stories jammed packed into this final season. It should be amazing and epic. If done right it will allow Lost to go down as one of the best series in history. There has never been a show to tackle these spiritual issue while dealing with science fiction, time travel in such a fascinating manner.

can anyone Work Out the loophole?

that'll b a gd one to think abt eh...

I've been trying to figure out whose 'eye' is at the end of the finale.

At first I thought it might be Juliet, but when I look at her eyes in the rest of the finale, it doesn't seem to match up. Then I thought it could be Jacob or Jack waking up in the jungle again... but they don't seem to match up either. I think it looks like a man's eye, but Dennis thinks it looks like a woman's eye, so I don't know. I know a person's eye color can change a little in certain kinds of light, so I just gave up. .... Knowing Lost, it's probably some character we've never met yet!



Anyway, I will say again that the opening scene of the Lost finale was all kinds of awesome!! ... One of my favorite scenes ever!!

I thought the eye looked like a woman's, but I didn't spend a lot of time on it. I'll have to look again.

I think that the loophole is that anti-Jacob is not allowed to kill Jacob. But he found someone else to do it.

I don't remember any eye at the end of the finale.

It's at the very end. Juliet hits the bomb and everything goes white and then "Lost" is on the screen... then there are several messages like "The final season" and "2010" and "Destiny Found" and then there is an eye that opens.

I was wondering what eye people were referring to on DarkUFO, but it's just part of the promo for next season. And since they haven't even started writing next season, let alone filming it, it will be footage from an earlier season. I just assumed it was Jack's eye from the pilot.

I wonder if the eye is connected to the eye Hurley saw when he looked in the crack of the cabin's wall back a couple season's ago.

Do you have a screencap of the eye?

I don't think it's a part of the promo for next season nor do I think it is a scene from next season. It's Juliet's eye opening up - it's there symbolically telling us, "I didn't die or rather 'we' didn't die!" They were most likely flashed away from the exploding bomb as Francheeta said - otherwise Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Miles would be dead and what a bummer of a next season that would be!

No, it's from the promo (it's after the Bad Robot logo and during the teaser for 2010), and it's Jack's eye from the pilot episode. If you freeze-frame it and compare it with the screenshot of the eye on Lostpedia, they are exactly the same, except for the dilation (but the pupil would be dilated when the eye opened and shrink immediately). I don't think it means anything other than it's one of the iconic images from the show.

I respectfully disagree. Lost producers never just show us something for nothing. It's what it represents and is symbolic of - something Lost is famous for doing. Just another one of their little subtleties. I know you don't agree, that's fine. You don't have to. We welcome all theories and opinions here - right or wrong.

I'm not sure whose eye it is, but whether or not it was a promo or part of the show, the effect is the same - it shows us something important and I tend to agree that it is one of the Losties etc that were in the 70s, waking up back in the future (either 2004 depending on if the crash is prevented, or 2007 - definitely leaning towards the latter, the other option doesn't make much sense for a season's worth of show left).

The producers don't do the promotions; ABC does. And it is Jack's eye from the opening shot of the pilot. All you have to do is freeze frame the image and compare it to this one from the opening shot:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/a/af/JackEye.jpg

They are exact except for the pupil dilation.

From what I understand, the promotion department at ABC isn't privvy to what the producers and writers of "Lost" have planned for the final season. Given the secrecy surrounding the show, I doubt that they are in the circle of trust. They're advertising people, after all. Their only job is to get people to continue watching the show.

But doesn't Jack have brown eyes? I think Kate has green eyes although, she does not have those eyebrows.

They wouldn't make an advertisement out of nothing; there'd at least be consulting on what to promote. Even if they weren't told any plot details, I'm sure they only showed the eye with the input of the producers.

For the episodes, they are given the clips etc to work with after they are filmed, and put it together from those... but since nothing would have been shot for next season yet, they would have had to have worked along with the producers to properly tease it.

Spoiler regarding Juliet at the link
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/05/lost-scoop-juli.html

I agree with you Bats. The writers have a reason for everything we see.

I did compare the eye at the end to the eyes of the Lost characters and was very disappointed to see it did look like Jack's. It had the same shape, color, and eyelashes.

That's if it's a promo at all.

If the dilation of the eye is different it's not from the same photograph. Can't be. Jack has greenish eyes, I think. But nothing would be done without approval and like Springy and Bubbaman said the Lost writers have a reason for everything.

It's simply a commercial for the following season. It takes place after the show has ended and the Bad Robot logo has come up. And no, not everything has meaning. How many times have the previews for the following episode been edited so that you get a completely wrong impression of what will happen? And the producers don't oversee the "enhanced" episodes, so they don't sign off on everything.

The eye is from the exact same shot. Look at the pattern of the eyelashes. The dilation is explained by the fact that the pupil will be dilated when the eye opens, but will shrink almost immediately when it adjusts to light. The screenshot from Lostpedia was just taken a second or two after the shot they showed in the promo.

I work in marketing, not for ABC but as I said above, there's no way they'd just go through old footage to make a promo for next season. Usually, yes, they are given the episode (or clips from the episode), and make the promos from that which sometimes ends giving the wrong impression, yes, since they only are given clips and don't know the full story (perhaps for fear of spoiler leaks). There's also been times (not sure about this for Lost, but for shows in general), where the clip ends up being dropped due to time constraints. It's an unfortunate part of marketing.

BUT - this case is NOT the same, because they weren't given the next episode, as there is no next episode shot yet. So they would have had to consulted with the producers on what to show, what to film, etc. to tease the final season.

All they show is an eye, which is Jack's eye from the opening shot of the series. There was no additional filming. I just think some people are reading too much into it. It's not Juliet's eye, so it doesn't mean that she's really alive. It doesn't necessarily mean that season 6 will start in the same place as season 1, with a rebooted timeline. It's advertising.

I never said it would start in the same place as season 1 with a rebooted timeline. The eye, yes, could be waking up anywhere, including 2007 on the island back with Sun, Frank, Ben, fauxLocke and nothing changed... with Miles having been right.

I've always thought it was a symbol for waking up somewhere... just a bit of a tease... that doesn't make it insignificant, and that doesn't mean they went and used old footage. Again, they would not just make up something to promo, they'd consult the producers. If I made something up at my job, you can bet I'd be fired - and so would they, so they would have had someone telling them what to do for the teaser. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

Perhaps you visit other boards where people do, but none of us here think that the eye is a scene or a shot from next season. None of us here think season 6 will open with that same eye shot either. It's a simple symbolic gesture for season six and nothing more. I thought it was very effective and powerful following the last scene of the finale & the S6 promo.

Vogs, thanks for that advertising post info. I was trying to find ways to say what you said and you said it perfectly.

That's all I'm saying. They used an iconic image, the opening eye shot of Jack from the pilot episode, as part of the advertising for the next season.

I read somewhere that they think it's Juliet's eye...and yes...there is a reasoon they showed that......this show doesn't show you something unless it has meaning somehow.....

You're absolutely right, Monk - about anything shown having meaning on Lost. I have too much respect for the Lost writers to accept anything less. Misdirection is a common tool used, but they would never just throw anything random out there to fill space.

Exactly! It's important, we just don't know why yet or whose eye it is.