Wow - Great show!

The opening scene really started us out right. Jacob and the new guy. Good and evil? God and Satan?

The fake Lock (as we discovered after Lock's body was dumped out of the box) is most likely that guy from the beach - does he has the ability to changed form? Jacob says something like "so you found a loophole" - a reference from that opening scene.

The cabin in present time that gets burned down - Was that Bernard and his wife's from the 70's? When they find the ashes, were they the ashes of the happily retired couple after having been incinerated by the hydrogen bomb? If so, does that mean that the losties didn't change anything, just accomplished what had already been done once (or how many times?) before?

Back to the opening scene - Jacob (good) keeps hoping that mankind will come through, while evil, full of so much hate he wants to kill Jacob, pessimistically predict they will fail.

Dharma, I think, refers to the things that must be done to make it to the next life. "beings that live in accordance with Dharma proceed more quickly toward Dharma Yukam, Moksha or Nirvana"

what do you think?

I don't think Bernard & Rose were living at the cabin that was burned. And the ashes that were found were put there (and shown to us) on a previous episode. It is thought that the ashes circled the House to keep whoever lived there (anti-Jacob?) trapped.

Welcome, Sue!

The cabin was "Jacob's Cabin", the one that Horace was building for himself and his wife. Whether or not Jacob ever actually resided in it, we don't know. The man we saw in the cabin may have been Jacob or Anti-Jacob.

As for Jacob and his beach buddy, I'm not completely sold on them being "Good" and "Evil". After all, Jacob was shown wearing dark suits in most of the flashbacks. And there's still the question of who ordered the Purge.

Welcome Sue!

The opening of The Incident was the best scene of the show, ever! Watching it for the second time I caught the thread of the bigger picture that the writers weaved all episode...heck since the start of the show.

Yes, I think it's pretty obvious that Jacob and Darkman(Bubbaman's name for the other guy) are Christ-like figure verses Satan figure. The coming war will be the ultimate battle of good and evil for the soul of mankind. The destiny versus free will concepts.

The evil in most mythology/religion has power over the dead, so yes Darkman would control in some way Locke, Alex, Yemi, and others. According to the producers Locke is similar to the antagonist in Stephen King's The Stand and The Dark Tower series...forgot the character's name...but he has the power of necromancy.

I also think what we were told was Jacob's cabin is the cabin Rose and Bernard were living in, but the ash isn't their bodies...it was always there in other shows when we've seen the cabin. Yeah, in Locke's dream we were told Horace built the cabin...but the dream was incoherent and dreams by their very nature aren't linear. We often confuse things in dreams...and I think that's what happened here. Or it could be Horace started the cabin and Rose and Bernard moved in and finished it. I don't think we saw R/B's cabin then the one known as Jacob's back-to-back by coincidence. I think the presence in the cabin was always Darkman...Jacob probably never lived there. After all it was Ben who said so...Ben lies and he admitted to never having seen or spoken to Jacob. Richard went right to the statue not the cabin when he took the group to Jacob...the statue was where Jacob lived in the 1800's, too.

The Losties probably caused the incident...just like Miles told them and us.

Welcome to Zap, Sue! It's always nice to find other fans of Lost.


With the discussion about Rose and Bernard - something just occured to me that didn't before. Some of us believe the Losties may be "coming" forward in time when the next season starts. Well, that goes for Rose and Bernard too then. Makes me feel rather sorry for them after seeing how content they are - where and when they are.

Ok - I am still trying to think this through.

Did we ever see the ashes in the 70's time period?

R/B were also transported back (It is Kate, Sawyer and Juliet who discover them). So if they are living in the cabin and some time later Juliet explodes the bomb (with a rock) they would be incinerated.

30 years later all that would be found of them is ash. (And wasn't there 2 piles in that scene?)

In any case, I have got to go back and watch a bunch of episodes. I have a feeling sales of those DVDs are going to jump!

No, we never saw ash in 1977. We have seen it in three episodes set in 2004 and 1 in 2008. Ben told Locke not to disturb the ash when he first took him to Jacob's cabin. We saw it again when Locke, Hurley, and Ben went there, and we saw the ash disturbed on one of these visits, just as it was when Ilana, Frank, and Bram saw it. It's just one thick ring of ash encircling the cabin. Check out lostipedia.com for a refresher.

We don't know that the bomb went off yet, and even if it did the Rose and Bernard in 2004 would still be alive.

They look like two different cabins.

Rose and Bernard's cabin:

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/bb89f3b8a07dbbc239495b35af94f0dc

Jacob's cabin:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:4x01-hurley-cabin.jpg

The ash was in a ring around the cabin, so it was placed there and not the result of burning or incineration.

As for the good and evil debate about Jacob and his beach buddy, Michael Emerson said in a podcast that he thinks it's much more complex than that. After all, the show has never been as simple as good vs. evil. And the religious refences in the show have often been used in ambiguous ways.

Here's a clearer daytime picture of Jacob's cabin:

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/b8804ec33952a6ddcf1502acb0f0e142

That's a photo of the cabin Hurley saw...we don't know that's the same cabin known as Jacob's. When Hurley saw it is was in a clearing, had no ash around it, and he said it was in a different location than the cabin Locke led them too...which was by trees and had the ash.

I couldn't get a clear picture to post of the outside of the cabin during the scene where Locke and Ben went to visit, but the second one I posted is of the one where Ilana and the group went to, obviously expecting to find Jacob there. It also had the ring of ash around it, so it's the same cabin, even though it's moved. The pitch of the roof is the same all of the times we've seen Jacob's cabin; it's different in Rose and Bernard's cabin.

It makes sense for Rose and Bernard to build a cabin during their three years on the Island. All they need is each other and for the Island to continue Rose's cure. And it makes sense for Jacob's cabin to be the one that Horace was building. After all, Locke found it by locating the blue prints and map after Dream Horace directed him to, so Jacob or Anti-Jacob directed him to the cabin through the dream. (One of them also influenced Locke to find the Beechcraft through a dream as well.)

The ring of ash seems to keep its occupant inside (whether it was Jacob or AJ), though it doesn't seem to keep the cabin from moving or appearing in another place (as it did with Hurley, though it's not clear whether this was the cabin physically moving or some sort of image projection). However, during Locke's second visit, he saw the ring of ash in the first location, though no cabin. He then found the cabin from Horace's map, so it was in a different location than when he first visited. We didn't see or hear anything about the circle of ash on this visit that I recall.

I'm not so sure that Ilana's group was expecting to find Jacob at the cabin we saw. Since Richard took the Others plus Sun and FLocke to the temple, where we first saw Jacob, I don't think Jacob ever lived once was at the cabin. Only Ben said Jacob lived there...and we know Ben lied.

I think Ilana was expecting Jacob at the cabin, because when she sees state of the cabin she tells her people that Jacob hasn't been there for some time and that someone else has been using it. So it seems that Jacob was associated with the cabin at some point, and that Ilana's group knew about it.

Wrong. If that were the case Everyone would be incinerated... and gee, I don't think that would make for a very interesting Season 6. I believe Rose and Bernard will jump through time along with everyone else from their time period. I also believe the flash of light was that time jump and not the bomb.

I do see a difference in the pitch of the two cabin roofs. Also, Rose and Bernard used palm fronds to roof it, unlike the other more conventional roof.

I'm not convinced Rose & Bernard jump forward along with everyone else. There's a part of me that feels like the island actually sends them back further in time and they're the skeletons found in the cave... but... who knows lol. They seemed rather content to not be involved with everyone else.

I do believe Vincent the dog will flash to the present of 2007 though... he's the only one that's been confirmed to make it to the finale

Instinctively, I think Rose and Bernard's cabin is the same as Jacob's cabin.

Rose and Bernard's cabin exists in the 70's. Wasn't Jacob's cabin (built by Horace) built closer to the time of the Purge?

No she didn't. She said "he isn't here."

We don't know Horace ever built a cabin for sure. That was all in Locke's dream/hallucination. Now that we know that Darkman has been manipulating things and has some power over the dead he could have used Horace's body to tell Locke how to get the to the cabin. Remember this is when Christian tells Locke he must move the island.

BL, that's how I felt about it, too. It was too close together in the episode...it was literally back-to-back.

Vogs, I tend to agree with you that Rose and Bernerd stay in 1977. They're happy, it's finished for them...and Jacob never visited them.

The implication of the scene between Bram and Frank is that they are taking the box with Locke's body to Jacob and/or Richard so that they will know who's body Anti-Jacob will appear as. So it does look as if they were expecting to find Jacob there. If they were looking for Anti-Jacob, why would they carry around Locke's body? Presumably he would already know that he had taken Locke's form.

As for the cabins, they are constructed differently, and "Jacob's cabin" has glass windows and furnishings that are more finished, as if furnished by someone who had access to better materials, not to mention a paiting of a dog. Rose and Bernard's cabin and the chair and tables are cruder and obviously made from native and scavanged materials. As Sawyer said, it's a "hut".

If we are voting on whether the cabins are the same, I'm voting "NO".

I don't believe that the cabins are the same either, for whatever my opinion worth.

I also don't believe that Rose's role on the Island is done yet. Her cancer was cured by the Island which, to me, makes her "special". I don't think that she was brought to the Island just to retire there.

Implied maybe, it was left ambiguous for a reason. Not one of them ever says they're going to see Jacob at anytime. It very well may turn out to have been Jacob they were looking for at the cabin, but as of now we do NOT know that for a fact. What we do know is the ash was used as a binding/protection ring--per Darlton on the season 3 DVD's and we do know Christian and Claire were the "people" seen there. We do know Christian is dead and Darkman has the powers to control, take over, use the dead. All that points, imo, to Darkman being trapped at the cabin, not Jacob.

Locke's body was needed as proof and as the big reveal.



We'll see if they're different or the same at some point, I'm sure.

The scene at the cabin was broken up by the Ilana and Jacob flashback (if indeed these were flashbacks of Jacob, which could be debated - more on that later), where he asks her for help. At this point we can assume that she is working for him, and that he somehow gave her instructions of some sort, like the shadow question. The fact that she later goes to the statue, where she was directed to go by the picture in the cabin, and finds Richard and asks him her question strongly implies that they are on the same team.

It may very well have been Anti-Jacob in the cabin that we saw, but I wouldn't say for certain. In the season 3 DVD commentary for "Cabin Fever", Cuse and Lindelof did say that the ash acted as a sort of binding spell for Jacob, meaning that Jacob was in the cabin at that time. Of course, they could have been misdirecting the audience or have simply changed their minds about it. It would be interesting if Ben somehow managed to trap Jacob in the cabin in order to get some sort of control over him. When Ben Lost power, Richard could have set Jacob free, which would have allowed him to return to the statue and visit Sayid several months later. Of course, the Locke, Jack, and Sun and Jin flashbacks could have coincided with this entrapment, which would argue against it.

The other possibility, which I mentioned earlier, is that these visits were made by Anti-Jacob in Jacob's form. Other than in the Kate flashback (in which he's wearing a blue plaid shirt), he wears a dark or black suit in all of them. But since none of these people knew Jacob, it would seem to be a useless ploy. However, in touching them, he may have somehow 'read' them to see which one of these people he could later exploit for his loophole.

Of course, it could very well have been Anti-Jacob in the cabin, which begs the questions: did he really take Christian's form, and did he do it each time we saw him? After all, if he was bound into the cabin, then he couldn't have taken Christian's form in "White Rabbit", where he seemed to lure Jack of a cliff (where he was saved by Locke). He also couldn't have taken the form of Yemi. And if Anti-Jacob is Smokey (which I'm not convinced of, but many people are), then what good does it do to confine him in the cabin if his smokey form can wander fairly freely about the Island, taking the form of dead people?

So the questions are who was in the cabin, who put him there, and how long was he confined there? I guess I have eight months to rewatch all my DVDs and try to figure things out.

Cuse and Lindelof did say that the ash acted as a sort of binding spell for Jacob, meaning that Jacob was in the cabin at that time.

For Jacob does not automatically mean it was a binding spell holding Jacob...could just as easily mean Jacob used it.

We have no reason to believe Darkman can take the form of the living, just the dead. So unless Jacob has always been dead--which negates the need to kill him--I highly doubt the person visiting the Losties was anyone but Jacob. They were each given advice, some a gift, and all were touched for a reason. We also have the ending were Jacob says "They're coming." Something that spooks FLocke and causes him to kick Jacob into the fire.

We also don't know how Darkman controls the dead. You're assuming he takes their form, it could be he controls them like a puppet.